So You Think That Was Good Do You?

Hello ho ho and a bottle of welcome to So You Think That Was Good Do You, a podcast
where we take a look back at the films from your childhood and question the absurdity
of their universes.
My name is Sam, and unfortunately this week, Evan's been abducted by a nefarious pirate
posing as a police officer investigating a child endangerment case.
But never fear, I'm joined by none other than Carl for this little adventure that we're
going to have.
Thank you for joining me, Carl.
How are you doing?
I'm doing good, mate.
I'm just glad to be the one that's going to bring the charisma this week.
There's no Evan, but I'm sure I'll get those vibes up there.
As we were saying just a minute ago, we on the podcast logo are the two sad faces, so
it's not a stellar outlook for an episode.
Yeah, apologies from the start.
This is all you're getting.
We don't have Evan's energy to balance this out.
You went with a different idea for the intro to me, though.
Oh yeah, what was your...
I was going to say we staged a coup and this was now our show, but Evan's kidnapped by
pirates.
He's kidnapped by pirates.
The point is, he is indisposed.
I'm sure he'll break out of whatever binds he's locked in and get back to screaming at
you all in the near future, but for now, you're stuck with us.
We'll be back with your regularly scheduled decibel levels next week.
Yeah, we will.
I might have to crank up the gain in the edit just to make it a bit more familiar.
So anyway, as you already know, because this is a podcast and you clicked on the episode,
this week we're going to be reviewing one of the true 90s classics, Steven Spielberg's
Hook starring Robin Williams, Dustin Hoffman, Phil Collins, and Gwyneth fucking Paltrow
of all people.
So what do you reckon, should I kick us off with a little plot synopsis?
Oh, hit me.
This...
I've really done myself dirty on this one.
This is another chat GPT plot synopsis, and to add a bit of flair, I asked it to do it
in a pirate's voice, which means I now have to do it in a pirate's voice, so let's see
how this goes.
Arr, listen well ye landlubbers.
In the film Hook, Peter Pan be all grown up, a forgetful lawyer what last his way.
When his wee ones be kidnapped by the fearsome Captain Hook, Peter must return to Neverland,
rediscover his inner child, and battle the villainous pirate to save his family, and
reclaim his rightful place as the boy who never grew up.
Yo-ho, a swashbuckling adventure awaits.
That was painful.
I think that was maybe a bit more Somerset.
That was great mate, don't do yourself and all, that was awesome.
I'd say keep that up for the rest of the episode, and we will be sorted for the whole thing.
I'd love to, but everyone would think that it's a Harry episode with that wildly Devonshire
accent I just accidentally put on.
I am glad it threw in a yo-ho-ho though, because we have decided to incorporate a little game
through this one, which is trivia based.
Yeah, well you know more about this, so yeah, let us know what that is.
Well yeah, I say we.
A trivia based yo-ho-ho game.
We're doing a trivia game titled Yo-Ho-Ho and a Bottle of Rum, which when we realise
that we are separate sides of the world and it's evening for me and morning for you almost
became yo-ho-ho and a nice cup of tea, but Sam has agreed to day drink, which is a very
healthy decision for the pod.
I've powered through, it's 11am, I've already had a shot of mezcal to build up the energy
for this.
I'm in Mexico, that's why mezcal, and now we're on the beer, so always a good start
to the day.
So yeah, there'll be little trivia sections thrown in with just awful names based on Yo-Ho-Ho
and a Bottle of Rum.
I apologise in advance, I'm very sorry.
Yo-Ho-Ho and a Bottle of Pun, I think will end up being the name, and I'm sure that that's
one of them.
Right, shall we just dig right into this movie?
I say let's crack on mate, yeah.
Do you want to kick us into this?
Well yeah, we start off and we're in a school play and they're doing the story of Peter
Pan and we find out we have our main character Peter Banning, he's in the audience, his daughter's
playing Wendy in the play, and we find out straight off that he is a terrible father
because he has a job and he has to take a phone call in the middle of a school play.
Like school plays are the most important thing that's ever happened.
Even like every parent doesn't fucking despise attending school plays, but his wife is not
happy that he has a job, which I don't think she does.
Certainly doesn't seem like it, I mean she's got no employable skills that I can see anyway.
From how much her kids worship her, I think she's home every day whispering about how
awful dad is, because all they tell him is that mum could do that.
So this is, I mean, this is a bit of a classic American movie startup, especially a 90s movie
where the dad is, most of them star Robin Williams as well, the dad is too focused on
his work, he's neglecting his kids, he's got to rediscover the magic of Christmas or
whatever the fuck the focus of the movie is, because Robin Williams here, Peter Banning
at this point is, yeah, he's tied up with work, he's a lawyer or something, he's never
made entirely clear what he does, but he's missed a business.
Or a chairman of the board, they're all said at different points.
He wears a suit.
Mergers and acquisitions, he wears a suit, he carries a phone, he has assistants, that's
all you need to know, and therefore he's an awful bastard.
The other thing that this establishes is that the story of Peter Pan exists in the universe
of Hook, and it's a famous story.
Yeah, it's sort of hinted at later, they imply that the kids in the story knew the author.
The kid, they... but I mean the crux of it is that later, or shortly, they visit Wendy,
their grandma Wendy in England, who is the Wendy of Peter Pan.
So in this world where Peter Pan is a famous story, and there is also a living and influential
famous person who, to her dying breath, will insist that she's the one from that book.
Presumably with evidence.
I don't know, it's just, it baffles me.
She says that J.M.
Barry, who wrote the book, used to regularly come over and visit and they'd tell him the
stories of Neverland and Captain Hook and Peter Pan.
Right.
Which kind of implies that he just literally sat there, pen and paper in hand, plagiarising
their lives, and he's the one that got rich off of it all, I guess?
I mean...
He's a ghostwriter.
The world's most successful ghostwriter.
There are probably, it's probably problematic anyway to leave J.M.
Barry along with your kids if you believe some of the stuff that's written about him,
but they've kind of done him dirty there, he just sat and listened as we told him about
our lives.
Yeah, absolutely.
But yeah, in amongst all this, Peter Panning is just a guy who can't remember anything
before the age of 12 and is also closely, has close ties to the woman who insists that
she's Wendy and that Peter Pan exists.
So nothing amiss here.
The whole, this whole side to it, the he's a terrible dad because he has a job, continues
when he misses his son's ball game.
Yeah, he's got to go into work on a weekend because the big deal is happening.
One million dollars, all the money is on the table.
And so he has to go into work when he promised his son that he would go to the game.
And did you notice his little phone holster?
I did.
A couple people had those little, little holsters for their phones with a Wild West kind of
vibe to them.
And they'd have a little phone duel, him and some guy.
And I was wondering, like, was there a time where mobile phones were so elitist of an
item that you were like, well, I can't just put it in my pocket.
The people need to know.
Going to the shop, because Amazon didn't exist at this point, you had to go to a specific
phone holster shop to go get your phone holster so everyone knew that you had a phone.
It's either that.
Guys, they didn't even have TikTok back then.
This is the ancient past.
It's either that or Americans just have to wear holsters because they can't help themselves
and they had to put something in it.
Yeah, they had the holster first and they had to design phones to fit inside.
Yeah, I think mobile phones like that were maybe a bit of a status icon back in the 90s.
They weren't that popular.
If you had one, it proved that you needed it and you were Mr. Business, which he totally
is.
So I can see that.
I can only excuse the fact that he's a complete wanker at work and he's got his assistants
reading out memos to him as he walks when he could just read them himself there in front
of him.
And he gets another assistant to go and record his son's ball game like he's ever watching
that.
How important are you when you have that many people doing the jobs that you're meant to
be doing?
Well, we don't know and we'll never know and it doesn't matter because all that matters
are his kids and their shit hobbies, which they are awful at.
The only reason this kid's into baseball is to back up the stakes of the film.
That's a fair point.
But he misses his son's baseball game.
He rocks up at the... what are they called baseball pitches?
Stadium?
I mean, stadium's a big word for this fenced off patch of grass, but it's a stadium.
His son shat the bed in this baseball game.
Apparently that's his fault.
Had he been there, they would have won, I guess, I think.
Is that what they're implying?
I've got no idea.
His son steps up to the bat, takes one swing, misses and the game just ends.
That kid was so shit that we'll just call the game there.
But he rocks up.
The stadium is now empty.
He's missed it all.
And that's where we reach our very first trivia section, Sam.
I have titled...
Wonderful.
Yo-ho home and a bottle of rum.
Beautiful.
Love it.
It's a strong start and I can't imagine it goes uphill.
Oh, we are downhill from here.
I came up with one good one and went, well, we're doing this then.
So Jack's playing in his little... is it little league?
Is that what this is?
Probably.
Yeah.
Let's say it is.
But did you see what his baseball league was called?
I've got four options for you.
You did?
Oh, okay.
Oh, well, if you've seen that, I might not give you your four options.
No, because I can't remember what it was.
Was it A, the pumpkin seed baseball league, B, the cranberry seed baseball league, C,
the date nut baseball league or D, the cherry pit baseball league?
It was the date nut baseball league because I couldn't figure out if it was a reference
to dates, the fruits, or if they were all just, I don't know.
I know.
I Googled it.
Yeah.
It's just dates.
What is that?
It's just dates, the fruit.
But yeah, I just saw it.
I was like, well, yeah, that's...
Date nut.
That is a thing that exists.
I don't think it's sponsoring a little league series.
Date nuts, the bit of the date no one wants are really trying to improve their marketing.
This little league series brought to you by that rind of fat that you cut off a steak
that no one wants.
Big date nut is really making a marketing push.
Because I know that you're a big baseball fan, I've got another question for you.
Oh yeah.
This movie set in 1991.
As we know, the baseball World Series in 1991 was won by the Minnesota Twins.
How many touchdowns did they win by?
One, two, three, or four.
Oh, I'm glad you've given me four options because I feel like I would have gone like
106.
Let's go for like three.
No, I was just fucking with the ice how many touchdowns they won by.
Oh, fuck.
Oh, okay.
There you go.
That demonstrates how little I know about Facebook.
Drink up, my friend.
Okay.
We're drinking.
Thirst of many, I'm sure.
Oh, I hope so.
All right.
Well, where does that leave us?
Well Jack is pissed off, but we're on a plane and we're now flying to London.
We are.
So the thing about the plane, he leaves work.
I guess he's already left work at this point, but he leaves work to get on this plane and
all of his colleagues are going on and on about plane crashes and the safety stuff on
planes.
Like this is set in the 90s.
This isn't new technology.
Planes have been about for a while.
I don't know what all of this, you know, fear is about.
I guess it ties into his fear of flying, which is exacerbated by his son drawing a picture
of the plane crashing and specifically his dad dying.
Yeah, that's a bit of a dick move to be fair.
His son is a bit of an asshole, but if you know that your friend has an absolute morbid
fear of flying, maybe don't spend the entire day going, probably fine.
Planes don't usually crash, but if it does, not much you can do about it, I guess, but
it probably won't happen.
Planes rarely crash, but if they do, there are never survivors.
Yeah, and so they're on the plane and Jack is pissed at his dad for missing the game
and they're having this discussion about it, but Jack is just flinging this rock hard
baseball around a plane.
That stresses me out.
Oh, honestly, I would throttle this kid.
He's smacking it off the walls and the ceilings and the windows.
I'm sure there's no doubt he's kicking the seat in front of him, crying, screaming, playing
some shitty game on maximum volume, Call of Duty on maximum volume.
I have a very, very low threshold on what counts as an asshole on a plane.
If you recline your seat in front of me, I already think you're a bit of a twat.
100% agree.
If you're throwing a baseball against the windows and the oxygen mask area, that kid
needs throttling.
It's proper little, that kid needs to be strapped down, straight jacket for the flight.
But yeah, no, I totally agree.
I'm the worst, most intolerant, hateful bastard on planes, coaches, anything.
If I sit down and you recline your seat, full stop, I dislike you.
Yeah, I think that's fair.
I completely understand that it's what they're designed to do.
And it's like, it's a long haul flight.
You need to sleep.
You need to put your seat back.
It doesn't matter.
I fucking hate you.
And I'll admit that it's completely irrational.
I don't think it is irrational.
That's just how I feel.
I've got no problem with it once they turn those lights off and you're meant to sleep.
But if you stick that shit back as soon as we set off and I'm eating my food around your
chair, you should be put down.
Go be put in a cage with all the pets in the cargo area, as far as I'm concerned.
Go get chucked in a chest with scorpions.
Boo box for you, my friend.
It's the boo box for you.
Boo box.
Planes need to have a boo box.
Oh, the plane would need so many boo boxes.
It's full of the worst people.
Remove half the seats, put boo boxes in.
If you kick the back of the seat, boo box.
If you show up for your flight, knowing you've got a cold or a cough, boo box.
Boo box.
Awful.
If you have a child, if you show up with a child under the age of three, a boo box and
a tiny boo box next to it.
With tiny scorpions.
Yeah, they're more poisonous little scorpions.
If you put your luggage in the overhead compartment above someone else's seat, double boo box.
If you request a seat that you didn't book, boo box.
Should we just fuck off the movie and just talk about the rest of the episode?
I'm pissed off about planes.
Plane etiquette is a more important thing than hookah.
It is.
It is.
It's more applicable to people, more relatable, but I feel like we should probably move on
to England.
Oh, I've always wanted to go there.
England, which famously is inhabited solely by Irish and Scottish people based on the
casting of this film.
I don't think there are any English people there.
Do you have Maggie Smith?
Maggie Smith from Edinburgh?
No, I thought she just played that accent for Professor McGonagall.
She sounded pretty Scottish in this.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Let me, let me Google this.
I'm not cutting this out.
Oh shit, yeah.
Yep.
Nevermind.
I was dead wrong.
Okay.
Cut all of that out.
Let's start again.
Oh.
And now we're in England.
I've always wanted to go there.
Me hearties.
But yeah, we arrive at Wendy's door and we once again learn that Peter is a fucking terrible
dad because his pain in the ass son is sliding down an ice covered concrete stair banister
at height.
And Peter says, don't do that.
You'll hurt yourself.
What an awful man.
Let's hope he learns a lesson and never cares about his son's safety again.
The film is really keen to slam in your face that Peter is an awful bastard because he
takes a $6 billion phone call and tells his son off for endangering his own life.
Unfortunately, nobody who was watching or producing this film gave a fuck about his
kids.
So it doesn't really land.
Again, these two kids are empty vessels, one of which has a picture of a baseball drawn
on it.
That is basically his personality.
I think their names are Jack and Maggie, but I'm not sure.
So moving on.
They're in England because there's a bit of a do, there's a bit of an event going on for
Wendy.
Wendy of Peter Pan fame, who now runs an orphanage and has run an orphanage for a long time.
They're doing a little dinner to honour her.
So all of the adults go out, leave the kids at home with the mental old man scrabbling
around on the floor.
They leave him alone as well, by the way.
No care for him.
Oh yeah, he was put in a home because he couldn't take care of himself.
But that upset Wendy.
So he was pulled out of the home and now he's on childcare duties, apparently.
Yeah.
He spends the entire time, he scrabbles around on the floor until he passes out.
That's his childcare.
And at some point does a bit of barking as he apparently understands the dog.
Oh well, this is what happens, isn't it?
So there's a bit of a supernatural presence around as Captain Hook has, in short, Captain
Hook's come in to abduct the children.
And this is shown by windows blowing open and dogs barking.
And the dog barking is clearly just a guy saying hook.
And I was so excited when I heard that, hoping it was Frank Welker.
But unfortunately I don't think it was.
Even he wouldn't stoop so low.
If there's no pig noises required, he's not interested, mate.
What's that?
Is that a word in the script?
You can fuck off.
I charge extra for words.
Thank you.
Yeah, I don't do words.
But if you leave your kids in the care of a man who was taken out of a home, don't be
surprised when they're not there when you get home.
This is Madeleine McCann's parents' levels of childcare and none of this should be a
surprise.
No, they get back and he and I guess a maid or something are both just wandering around
talking bullshit.
And there's been a letter left from supposedly Captain Hook.
Yeah, a very nice letter too.
That thing is printed beautifully like a King James Bible.
There is artwork involved.
I don't know how long they were working on that.
The reason that Peter Pan left 30 years ago and they've only just got around to showing
up is because they were perfecting that.
Yeah, they were trying to abduct a calligraphy expert to help them with their letters.
But the kids are abducted now and the police get called?
No, no, it's not the police.
It's Genesis.
Interesting choice.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, so in police outfit, Phil Collins shows up and basically just says, yeah, nah, kids
are gone or something.
What's he saying?
He's just like, do you reckon it's some sort of prank because of the history of the family?
I don't know.
Detective?
Detect?
You tell me.
Yeah.
The police are no help in short.
They don't do much.
So what I find interesting is that during, I was almost going to call him Robin, put
another hard to remember Peter, is it Peter's deal falling apart.
His wife has a go at him for not paying enough attention to his kids.
You're missing out on their lives.
This is a woman who married a man who has no memories before the age of 12 or 13.
No education before 12 or 13 and somehow managed to become a lawyer.
Maybe you should expect that he's going to be a bit fucked up and rubbish at some things.
Maybe the guy who had no parents from the age of six months to 13 and yet didn't show
up in the child, didn't show up in the care system for 13 years, might be a bit fucked
up and shit as a dad.
You married him.
This guy had a shady, he had a shady past and not even mentioning the fact that, so
we get revealed here from Wendy, Wendy tells Peter that he is Peter Pan and that he chose
to come to the real world when he saw her, are we saying daughter or granddaughter?
Granddaughter, yeah.
We never see daughter.
We never see Moira's mom.
Obviously not a looker, not worth coming over for.
Maybe, maybe, mom fuck no, skip that one and then we got to Moira and he was like, oh,
okay, yeah.
Yeah.
But let's just, I just want to step aside or, you know, take a little side note for
a moment and dig into this.
Wendy is about what, 80 odd at this point?
I believe she is meant to be early nineties.
Okay.
So let's call her 90.
When Peter Pan abducted her in the original Peter Pan story, he had been in Neverland
for a long enough time to amass his own cult.
So he is significantly older than her.
Sort of, yeah.
She's 90 years old.
He's still, he's been in Neverland the entire time.
He may not have grown up, but he has lived that time.
So he, after living, let's call it a minimum of 100 years of life, saw a 13 year old girl
asleep in bed and decided he was going to marry that child.
I mean, it's weird for him.
That's what prompted him to come to the real world.
It's weird.
Also weird that her grandmother went, yeah, that sounds fine.
That's not creepy.
She was fine with it.
Also Moira was okay with it, apparently.
We don't know.
She never wakes up.
True.
And he then gets fucked off to America with an adopted family and she's in England.
So he must've waited it out, I guess, for a bit and then come back and gone.
I'm going to, I'm going to show myself up a little bit here by saying that this is pretty
reminiscent of the story of, or the ending story of Twilight, where the mid twenties
guy decides he wants to fuck a baby and that's just cool.
That's it.
You go in, you're off with Evan.
You're off the pod.
Hello, and welcome to-
Oh no.
But yeah, I think the problem is that in the books, Peter Pan, he shows up every now and
again, but he has no memories of most of the things that have happened.
He pretty much goldfishes all the time.
So when he shows up when Wendy's older, he doesn't remember who Tinkerbell is because
she died so long ago.
He doesn't remember who Captain Hook is, he doesn't remember who the Lost Boys are.
They're all gone.
And he hasn't stored these memories, but in the movie, he's remembered her and remembered
everything.
So he's got a hundred years of memories.
So he's a man, really.
Absolutely.
In the body of a child and wanting to be in the body of another child.
Sorry, I'll get in the poo box.
Anyway, let's, I'm going to dig more into this later so we can move on for now.
The point is, he doesn't believe any of this, gets drunk and meets Tinkerbell, who has come
back to see him, to say hello.
She comes into the room and he's confused, he's shocked at this tiny little creature
talking to him.
She doesn't seem to know that he's lost his memory, which means that in the thirty
odd years that he has been away from Neverland, she never visited.
Well, I feel like it kind of is implied that she may have popped by and watched from the
sidelines every now and again, but yeah, it's almost like none of them believed that he
was actually serious, that they all believed that he was just pretending he couldn't remember.
Wendy was shocked too.
Yeah, which is a hell of a facade to keep up for all that time, but it's, you know,
he really doesn't remember.
And so when she tells him what she is, she says, I'm a fairy.
He says, well, I don't believe in fairies.
And she says, every time you say that, a fairy dies.
And he shouts, I don't believe in fairies, which by the way, is the world's worst hate
crime.
You're literally murdering, indiscriminately, a member of a race for no reason.
So he's an appalling racist.
Are they a race or a species?
I mean, we don't have to dig into it, but.
Okay, he's speciesist, he's whatever.
It's like this podcast's hatred of ducks, except we're always saying there are more
of them and he's saying there are none of them.
Too many ducks, if anything.
Ducks and Brooklyn Heights.
That's a lot of reference to James and the Giant Peach.
Go and listen to that instead.
And Super Mario Brothers.
Oh, yeah, of course.
So anyway, he, I think she knocks him out.
I think he knocks himself out.
And drags him off to Neverland.
Well, yeah, group effort.
Little, I mean, look, this isn't a trivia question the way that yours are, but I'm going
to throw in my own version of Yo Ho Ho, which is called Yo Ho Ho and a sprinkle of what?
The question being, what is fairy dust and where is it secreted from?
Is it, is it like moth dust?
Oh, okay.
I thought you were about to throw me out like a few options.
Has she got like little dust glands?
No, no, no.
I don't know the answer to this.
This is purely a question to the universe.
But where does this come from?
I mean, I feel like you've probably hit on the best possible answer there is just like
that weird shit that comes off moths if you get water on them.
It's got to be either moth dust or bird shit, right?
It's one of the two.
I don't, this doesn't go anywhere by the way.
I don't have an answer.
I know we're meant to go yes and, but I don't know what to hit you with there.
Well either way, it makes you fly if you're happy and when they fly over a kissing couple,
we discover that it also makes you fly if you're horny.
Yeah.
Interestingly.
They float up into the air.
I wasn't going to mention it but soon as you've mentioned them, a little cameo by George Lucas
and Carrie Fisher.
Oh, I didn't know that.
What a strange cameo.
Add that to the intro where I listed all the strange people that are cast in this.
Not the weirdest cameo in this movie for sure.
It isn't.
No.
But anyway, we are now finally 45 minutes into the film, 40 minutes into the podcast
in Neverland.
We finally made it.
Yeah.
That's brave, right?
For a kid's movie to spend 40 minutes on shit dad business deals.
Absolutely.
I mean, I was, I was zoning out.
It's the precursor to trade negotiations really.
We let them get away with it once and we did it again.
It really is.
George Lucas came in and he was like, mate, you're spending far too little time discussing
business deals.
But why did the business deal fall apart?
Yeah.
But how much, what species of owl was it though?
God, I forgot about the owl.
Fucking owl.
Either way, all that aside, we are finally in Neverland and Tinkerbell has decided to
drop Peter off in the middle of the pirate's den, village, town, whatever it may be in
the dock.
Yeah.
She is.
Strange choice.
Up to something.
This little fairy.
Honestly, her character is so fucking confusing through the whole thing.
Of all the places to drop him off, it's almost like she's there for the bounty or something.
She's only there to keep the plot moving.
She keeps showing up just to kick the plot along a little bit.
Just kick it down the road.
So she drops him off in the pirate's hideout so that he can, so that we can meet all the
pirates who, to be fair, for the most part, seem like quite a cheerful and affable bunch.
Yeah.
It's very odd.
I mean, sure, one of them wants his shoes.
Quite nice apart from we're told they spend a good amount of time killing children.
Killing children and all of the crimes that they commit are only referenced, never seen.
What we see is a bunch of happy-go-lucky chaps dressed up in funny clothes who get onto a
ship and listen to Smee being a cruise ship comedian doing a little kind of opening set
for Captain Hook, which all, I mean, this leads into the Boo Box scene.
Something which I wish we'd had more of.
Hook kind of picks one of the pirates at random who he thinks doubted him.
Yeah.
Who is a very rosy-cheeked man with a lot of grey hair dye in.
Yeah, this is, it's quite, well, I think it's a fantastic introduction to the character.
We sort of see first this, although he's the captain, there's a weird amount of paranoia
and insecurity that even when he's bragging about what he's achieved, he's like, one of
you doubted me, and then his narcissism is he won't even walk down the stairs to confront
them until a red carpet is placed out in front of him.
But yeah, he pushes through the crowd to point out who has doubted him, and we're meant to
think it's Peter because they're stood next to him, but it's a pirate called Gutless,
it turns out.
And this is where we get to trivia section two, which I have named.
Oh, excellent.
Yo-ho.
Whoa, is that?
And a bottle of rum.
Because we have four very famous actors in this scene.
Peter.
Okay.
Hook.
Smee.
And Gutless.
So I've got a few questions to throw at you, yeah.
Shit, I've got no idea who it is.
Two of the four people in this group were considered for the role of Mario in the Super
Mario Brothers 1993.
Do you know which ones?
One of them got it.
Excellent.
Shit, I wasn't on that episode.
I haven't watched that movie.
Why do you think I threw it in there?
I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I don't even know what the actor's name is, the guy
who played Smee.
He seems more of the Mario type than any of the others, and I guess the other one that
was considered was probably Robin Williams, because he was considered for every movie
ever.
Oh, we are both drinking.
Are we?
Smee was Mario, and the other one was Dustin Hoffman.
Fuck off, why?
Yeah.
He's way more of a Luigi.
And I got another one for you.
Out of the four, only one of them hasn't been in a movie we've reviewed on the pod before.
Do you know which one?
Before this.
Well, obviously before this, because they're all in this.
They are all in this, yeah.
Okay, well, I know Robin has, I know that Smee has.
Has Dustin Hoffman been in anything?
Because I don't know who Gutless is, so I'm going to say Dustin Hoffman has not been in
anything.
Motherfucker.
Yeah.
Which is surprising, quite a prolific actor.
Do you want to know?
Please tell me who it is.
Cruella De Vil.
It's Glenn Close.
Holy shit, it's Glenn Close.
I was going to say this is quite an effeminate kind of rosy cheeked pirate.
What a casting choice.
It's not even a casting choice.
She's Robin Williams, mate, and she just came to visit him that day, so they shoved her
in to the movie.
Oh my God, I'm going to rewatch this.
I'm going to go back to that scene.
That scene.
That's crazy.
It's turned into my brain from childhood because being put in the boo box with the scorpions
and the way she screams in pure terror has always stuck with me.
And it's just a, I don't want to say a throwaway scene, but it's sort of shoved in because
she showed up that day.
That's mental.
Yeah.
Honestly, the shit Glenn Close gets put through with the molasses shit water in 101 Dalmatians
and now this.
Apparently she loves it.
What a legend.
Yeah.
Oh, that was some good trivia.
That's great.
That's got me hyped up.
But yeah, Gutless gets put in the boo box and then Robin, Peter comes forward to say
those are my kids and Hook can't believe it.
This isn't the Peter Pan he knows, Peter Pan saying I'm not Peter Pan.
And this is where we're introduced to, I would say, the other villain of this movie.
Oh, the son, gotta be the son.
No, because Smee's like, no, no, this is Peter Pan, dental records, got a driving license
and I have a sworn affidavit from one Miss Tinkerbell.
This bitch ratted him out.
Yeah.
Tinkerbell is such a shit.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, she totally did.
Tinkerbell is the weirdest kind of, where do her allegiances lie?
Because immediately after this, Hook's not interested, he doesn't remember who he was,
this isn't the Peter Pan I know.
She barters with him to say, no, don't kill him and his kids, start a war.
Give me three days and I'll give you the war that you want.
She is such a warmongering little pot-stirring bitch.
Well, I mean, if you think about it, we know from Peter's story later on that nobody gets
to Neverland without the help of a fairy and we only see one.
So we can only assume that all these lost boys are there because of her.
She set one side of the table up, she's playing on the other side of the board.
I think she wants this war as much as he does.
I mean, when you consider that throughout this movie, we're only ever shown that there
is one way to get to and from Neverland and that's fairy dust.
And she seems to be the only fairy.
She's the sole producer.
So how did Captain Hook take his kids?
She oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
She totally.
She definitely helped.
She's the only way that they're getting over.
We learn later on that she's apparently, despite all was being Julia Roberts from when he was
six months old, she's in love with him, even though she hasn't seen him since he was 12.
And she wanted him back.
She hasn't seen him in 30 years, minimum.
And still, yeah, she is a bizarre character.
And you know what?
The very next scene after this, I mean, OK, in brief, his kids are strung up.
He can't get to them.
So he gets knocked off the plank by accident, but he gets chucked off the plank.
So Tinkerbell has negotiated with Hook to give her three days to get him ready to fight
this war.
Yeah.
Tinkerbell has, you know, stoked the fires under this burgeoning war and then he gets
kicked off the boat and she decides, we'll leave him down there.
She doesn't go into the water to save him.
Lastly, I want to say, so he starts drowning and he's saved by some mermaids, three mermaids
swim up to him and take it in turns, kissing air into his mouth.
Then they lower him into a clam shell.
Right.
Yeah.
The clam, the clam, the shell gets raised up.
He sighs down.
He meets Tinkerbell.
She's asleep.
Let's break this down.
She's asleep and when she wakes up, she's surprised that he's alive.
So first of all, she wrote him off as dead immediately.
He drowned.
She's like, ah, fuck.
Well, that's that.
He's dead.
She flies off, goes straight to sleep.
She's done.
She's done for the day.
But are we meant to assume that he was underwater for an entire night then while they breathed
air into his mouth?
This is my next thing.
He absolutely was underwater for the entire night because he 100% had a mermaid for some.
That's all that was happening down there.
I don't know if that's what happened, but he forgot about his kids in mortal danger
very quickly when those mermaids showed up for sure.
Oh, we totally did.
The three sexy mermaids showed up and he spent a full night down there with them.
What else were they doing?
We can probably send you up now.
No, no, just one more, more bit of air.
And they, yeah, exactly.
They take him down there, let him stay the night and then call them a cab in the morning.
The clamshell takes him up and drops him off at the lost boys place.
They're done with him.
And so, oh, and the second point of that, Tinkerbell thinks that he's dead.
She's written him off.
Surely the pirates have as well.
So his kids are dead.
Why would Hook keep the kids alive if he saw Peter drown?
He's like, oh, nevermind.
That dude's dead.
Let's kill the kids, drop them off.
Go do something else.
I mean, to quote a very successful YouTube channel, so the movie can happen.
It's such a bizarre scene.
I don't know who this mermaid scene is in here for.
No, I don't know.
Apart from maybe Robin Williams, but he didn't seem like the type that would suggest such
a thing.
The three models show up and they never met her again.
When you consider that this movie is two hours and 20 minutes long, that's a scene you can
cut, I think.
We could have cut the first 40 minutes of this.
We could definitely cut the moment.
I don't know.
I do love a trade negotiation.
And we can cut a lot of what is, okay, let's keep the negotiations in.
Cut the baseball.
Cut the school play.
Cut the baseball.
A few more phone duels.
There's plenty more that can get cut.
Okay, so I've had my rant.
The next thing that happens is, yeah, he's now with the Lost Boys and they kind of run
around and interrogate him on who he is.
He's introduced to Rufio, who is a prick and also looks about 20.
Yeah.
He does look far older than the...
He looks like he's old enough to be a pirate, to be fair.
Him saying all grownups are pirates is a bit strange from him.
Yeah.
It looks older than Glenn Close did.
But the other thing about this is, so they chase him around for a bit and then they decide
whether they believe that he's Peter Pan.
And they do this by the smallest kid there, a child of about six years old, smooshes his
face around a little bit, pushes his face back and then says, there you are, Peter.
Which means this kid has been here for the last, what, 50 plus years?
Yeah.
Because he knows Peter.
Well, yeah, that's the weird thing about this one is, I believe in the book, Lost Boys Grower,
because Peter's meant to thin the herd, whatever that means, once the boys grow up, grow to
be too old.
But in this one, they don't, a few of them kind of talk as if they've always been there
and always been that age.
The little tiny child remembers Peter.
The chunkier of the children remembers the very old two tools who's back at the house.
So they don't age in this, I guess, and you only age if you leave.
All these kids are like 90 plus years old and they still talk with lisp because they
haven't developed.
Yeah, none, this is-
Cupidessant little 100 year old.
This is Kirsten Dunst in Interview with the Vampire.
This would be miserable where she's just tortured by the fact that she, in her mind, she's an
adult woman, but she hasn't aged since she was bitten at about eight years old.
These people would be going insane.
Absolutely.
Yeah, creepy undertones to this.
Just awful.
Anyway, they decide that he is, they all decide, yep, this is Peter, however old he may be.
And we cut now and see that Captain Hook's having a little breakdown and Smee gives him
the idea to befriend Peter's children and turn them against him.
He's got three days.
I mean, he's done most of the work himself already.
You know, he took that phone call, what a bastard.
He took multiple phone calls and then had a go at you for trying to fucking, I don't
know, jump out a window, kick some seats.
Whatever you were doing, you looked like a shithead.
Trying to smash an airplane window.
What a terrible dad.
Yeah.
But this is-
Asshole.
One of my favorite scenes from the whole movie.
It's a good scene.
It's a strange amount of depth to a children's movie villain.
There's the bipolar element to him.
His plan hasn't worked out, so he's just like, well, yeah, that's it.
I am killing myself then, I guess.
He starts off with a gun to his own head trying to kill himself.
A gun to his own head saying, Smee, don't try to stop me.
Don't try to stop me, Smee.
Try to stop me, Smee.
Better get up and try to stop me.
But yeah, there's a weirdly camp overtone to the whole thing.
And it's because the two actors decided to play them as, in their words, like a pair
of old queens.
So in the actors' minds, they were playing a gay couple, an old gay couple.
And you can sort of see that.
I mean, I suppose there's a slight- yeah.
There's a weird kind of mutually dependent affection between the two of them.
Which isn't shown, I feel like conventionally, Hook and Smee, it's a subordinate relationship
between, you know, Smee is the assistant.
Yeah.
But in this, yeah, there's a lot more there.
There's a point where he even straddles over Hook's lap as he twists his mustache up.
But yeah, once I read that before I watched the film and I was like, yeah, have you ever
seen The Birdcage?
No.
I'm not going to get this reference.
Okay.
No.
Well, it's not necessarily a reference.
So in The Birdcage, Robin Williams, strangely, and Nathan Lane, they play like an old gay
couple who run a gay bar.
And you can sort of see similarities between the two.
And I was sort of wondering after reading how they chose to play it and then how it
worked out with those different movies, whether this inspired that.
I believe this came before The Birdcage, but I just thought it was interesting.
The other thing that happens in this scene is that-
We almost missed my favorite part of Hook's bedroom as well.
Did you see his vinyl player?
No, I didn't.
He has a vinyl player, but it's got an armrest so he can play it with his hook.
Oh my God, that's genius.
Yeah, that's a fantastic detail.
There's a lot of like the set design, the character design in this is great.
It's just not really backed up with some of the plot.
An odd amount of love has gone into the development of the sets.
Clearly, yeah, so much.
Anyway, so the other thing that happens in this scene is that he decides to gain the
trust and the allegiance of Pan's children, which we have to assume because of how much
time is dedicated to it, will go somewhere and have some importance to the plot.
Let's fucking see how that pans out, yeah.
Oh, pans out, nice.
So, meanwhile, Peter gets a little bit of training, Lost Boys basically is pissing around
and then we come to what I would say is probably the most famous scene of the film, Bangerang.
Our imaginary folksy.
Yeah, so it starts off with what I can only describe as a preschool rap battle between
him and Rufio where they're exchanging kind of, I don't know, weird school insults at
each other.
And then, yeah, the food is revealed, which is to say a load of empty plates are revealed
with some steam coming off them just to add to the illusion.
And there's the whole thing behind this of this being his awakening of his imagination
because once he wins the rap battle, he starts seeing the multicolored smorgasbord, the bounty,
it's like Hogwarts Grand Hall feast level of food on the table.
I wouldn't go that far.
There's pink mesh and slimy meat.
If I roped up to Hogwarts Great Hall, that was available to eat when magic exists, I'd
be quite pissed off.
I'm also quite pissed off that a bunch of starving kids, when imagining a big table
of food, thought pink mesh, slimy meat and an enormous block of cheddar.
Anything else?
No, that's dinner.
That'll do.
Yeah, so does this lean into the whole these kids are immortal thing then?
Well, I suppose that they're definitely not invincible, we'll learn later.
I think it's got to.
Yeah, they don't need food.
These little weird vampire kids do not need food.
Well, so in addition to this scene, one of the the final shots in this pans out a little
and shows where we are and I think, god damn it, gotta change my vocabulary for this.
It zooms out and shows us where we are and we can see that the Lost Boys, the mountaintop
where they are, is right next to the dock with all the pirates.
So as far as I can tell, the entirety of Neverland, based on what we see and the descriptions
that we get, are a dock of cheery pirates, a small glade full of starving children, some
mermaids having an orgy and some quote unquote Indians who are never seen but who are killed
off screen.
Yeah.
That's the ecosystem that we're working with and Tinkerbell.
The single fairy who, I guess, killed off all other fairies and then said, well I guess
I'm just gonna have to go recruit tiny children from the other world then so I can carry on
my endless war.
She's like that old guy in Mortal Kombat, just trying to track down enough people to
carry on the fight.
Tinkerbell is hovering above all this, playing fucking Civilization, stoking wars between
the different factions on the board.
Oh yeah.
Just seeing what happens.
She is not there fighting at the end.
She just sets everything in motion and then it's just, wait to see what happens.
Sits back and watches.
I'm gonna skip over a few bits here because to be honest they're not very interesting.
We get the ball game with Peter's son Jack, I think that's the first time we've used
his name.
Jack is his son.
His other son, Maggie?
Yeah that's his other son.
Is entirely irrelevant.
Oh sorry, is that the child?
His daughter is so forgettable that the plot has forgotten her.
So they have a little ball game there, they go to steal Hook's hook but Peter's too busy
watching the game to do it so nothing happens.
Hook is showing that he's a bad dad because he arranges a ball game and then attends it
which Peter failed to do.
Slow bar.
It's more of this kind of shit dad subplot but again it doesn't go anywhere so who gives
a fuck.
I would jump ahead and say he becomes more fun at the end.
I would not say he becomes a better dad, he's definitely a more unsafe dad now.
Always leave the windows open, slide along the concrete, we'll kick the plane seats together
on the way home.
Sure.
His daughter asks to be thrown out the window and he seems totally down with that.
He's not a better dad, he's just a louder more Robin Williams dad.
He's the dad from Mrs Doubtfire, the start of Mrs Doubtfire, that's the dad he becomes.
He does.
Yeah.
I can't remember if there's a headcanon in that.
Yeah that's a good point.
I mean look it bears a lot of resemblance to a lot of Robin Williams films, especially
Jumanji but we don't have time to dig into all of that.
So he heads back to this glade after seeing the ballgame and like a ball hits him on the
head and then he finds a tree with a big face in it which it turns out was Wendy's house
and this is the setting for his reawakening as Peter Pan.
He's been Peter Panning up until now, now he turns into Peter Pan.
So he goes into here and he's got all of these reminders.
This is the tree from I guess the Disney cartoon that we've seen.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that's what it's a reference to, I don't remember it well enough to say for
sure.
I haven't read the book so I can't say how much the Disney cartoon follows the book.
There's usually differences but yeah there's a lot of similarities between the two but
he goes in and asks what happened to the tree because the whole thing's been burnt down.
And Tinkerbell says that after you didn't come back, Hook came in and set fire to the
whole thing.
And I don't think he did.
I think she did.
She's a fucking nutbag.
She's obsessed with him and he didn't come home.
If Hook did it, why do they all still live there?
He knows where their secret hideout is.
True.
No, you're right.
She totally did it herself and this is all part of her machinations.
It does work though.
So once Peter starts looking through all of the paraphernalia in there, he starts gaining
memories back.
And I'd like to just run through what they reveal is Peter's story beginning to end
because it's questionable.
We start off with the reveal that Peter's story began when he developed a fear of his
own mortality as a baby in a pram.
He compelled some crows to carry him away and then pissed off to Neverland.
Presumably Tinkerbell's Oscar-y in doing all this, but that's what happened.
This is definitely the mid-19th century as well, if I look at it.
This was a good, well, we already know that it's sort of mid-late 19th century because
that's how old he is.
He's like 150 years old at this point in the film.
So they carry him off to Neverland.
He tries to go back home, but he was foiled by a closed window, which he decided instead
of knocking on that, he would go elsewhere and start abducting children.
So he did that for a little bit and eventually he got to Gwyneth Paltrow and abducted his
wife.
And this brings us into what we know as the famous Peter Pan story.
So at this point, Peter's stealing children out of their beds at night, bringing them
to a private island full of rich adult pirates with questionable morals.
We don't actually see Jeffrey Epstein, but he was about.
You've sold me.
Yeah.
There's my dark theory about this.
What's weird about the whole thing is, well, he remains the same age, but he keeps coming
back for Wendy when she's a kid and then a teenager and then a woman in her twenties.
And she keeps going off on these adventures, early teens boy or pre-teens boy and says
to him earlier on in the movie, I half expected you to show up on my wedding day and stop
the wedding.
And she looked sad about that.
So was she crushing on this very young boy as an adult woman, because this is a second
adult woman who was apparently obsessed with him.
Yeah.
He's much, much older than her, but has the appearance of appearance of a young child,
which is fully up her string.
And he is well into that.
And she wishes fucking painfully immature individual.
Oh yeah.
He spends all of his time with young children, bringing them to the pirate island.
And then yeah, like you say, throughout time, he keeps visiting and as far as we can tell,
he retains his memory, but he sees Wendy growing up.
And eventually, as she is fully formed Maggie Smith version of Wendy, her granddaughter
is there lying in bed and she explains calmly to him, bro, I'm old as fuck now.
Look over there.
I have a 13 year old granddaughter.
You need to stop visiting.
And his response to that is, well, she's quite fit.
And so he goes over and sexually assaults her while her grandmother watches.
So this is a love story for the ages.
But yeah, like I said, he's made this plan to be with her, but then gets binned off to
America with an adoptive family, but doesn't give up on that plan.
Does she know?
Does she ever meet him?
Is he the only thing he remembers?
Well, she's asleep.
We don't actually find out exactly how the romance between those two goes, do we?
No.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like we say, he imprints upon her and decides that his life goal is to first of all, get
this girl, this 13 year old, and secondly, to become a business wanker.
Yeah.
Well, apparently he says his life goal was to be a dad.
So his life goal wasn't, oh my God, this girl, she's the one.
It was just, I want to have a baby and there's a girl, I guess.
It was definitely, she'll do.
He looked down at that young girl sleeping, standing next to her grandmother and said,
she looks fertile.
She will do nicely.
I'm off to America.
See you when I'm an adult man.
You're an adult, Robin Williams adult, Peter.
We returned to him now and he's remembered all this and he goes, oh, that's it.
I like being a dad, so now I can fly because that's my happy thought.
Yeah.
Immediately, he forgets who he is.
He's back to being Peter Pan now.
Peter Pan is gone.
Yeah, that is.
He just thinks he's Peter Pan because he forgets that he's an adult.
Surely he should stop flying because he's forgotten that he has a son.
I don't know.
This whole section where he suddenly turns into, I was going to say a 12 year old, but
a mental age of seven and suddenly can't remember all the things that inspired him to become
Peter Pan again.
All just seems solely for this Tinkerbell side story that could all have been cut out
and saved us.
Well, again, he's back to being Robin Williams at the start of Jumanji, the child trapped
in an adult's body.
A bit creepy, very unexplained, quite confusing, but like you say, yeah, the next scene, well,
one of the next scenes is that now that he's remembered who he is, Tinkerbell, who let's
remember aside from all the warmongering, she knows that he's married with kids and
she still tries to smash.
She turns herself into a human, which she can do now, apparently.
She's got Ant-Man powers.
Oh, she is.
When did that happen?
She's so pissed when he rejects her advances and remembers he has kids.
She knows those kids are dying today and she's hoping he won't remember them.
She started all this.
She knows that his kids are in captivity being Stockholm syndromed by Captain Hook.
And her first priority is I'm going to turn human, which I can do now and try and smash
this man with the brain of a either 12 year old or 150 year old.
This man who I met when he was three months old and I was an adult.
And then I raised him and taught him.
Tinkerbell is a denny god.
Fucking nonsense what she is.
And she, and I leave that in, if anyone, for anyone who has seen Flubber recently or remembers
it, it's got real weebo vibes.
Right?
That is, yeah, weirdly accurate.
I didn't think of that, but yeah, it's kind of weird that Robin Williams is in two movies
where he has a tiny flying sidekick who wants to smash.
That is odd.
The floating female voiced sidekick.
This is like Tom Cruise always has to run in movies or Brad Pitt always has to eat in
movies.
And Robin Williams always has to have a tiny sidekick who wants to fuck him.
It's in his contract.
Yeah, Brad Pitt's eating apples.
Robin Williams is trying to avoid sexual advances from tiny female companions.
But while all this is happening and he's re-discovering his pan-hud back.
You don't want to lose that.
No, you don't want to lose that.
But back on Pirate Town, whatever it's called, there's a really strange scene where Jack's
got his dad's pocket watch and there's the whole Captain Hook phobia of ticking clocks
thing and it wakes him up because he needs to smash that clock.
And we go to the museum of broken clocks and he's smashed every ticking clock in the
entirety of Neverland.
And that's what they do.
Hook's got to smash that clock, Tinkerbell's got to smash that clock.
So they go to this museum and he gets Jack to smash this watch and all the other clocks
and he's saying all the terrible things that his dad did as he's smashing them and I kind
of was thinking maybe that's what this movie is about, is this fear of time from both sides.
So all these kids are terrified of the concept of time because it means growing up and turning
into adults.
And all these adults have the same fear of time but because to them, time equals death.
Like for Hook, literally, there was the ticking clock of the crocodile that ate him.
I guess it's that symbol, that symbol of time equals death and that's why he has to smash
all clocks.
Yeah.
No, totally.
To have a quick aside and we may jump back to this at the end, I think there are some
really interesting kind of themes around that that are very shallowly explored in this with
Hook is afraid of growing old and afraid of his appearance and afraid of his legacy and
all of that and everything's linked back to time.
You get all how time has passed.
He's lost his will to live because time has passed and Peter's moved on.
Peter's grown up and his fear of time is kind of linked back to the way that he's rejected
his childhood and all of this shit and the Lost Boys are scared of growing up.
I think Peter even says it at some point, how he says to Captain Hook, something like
the clock symbolises your fear of time.
It's very on the nose, it's towards the end.
Because even towards the end, I guess where we're meant to see that he has grown, Peter,
is when Hook threatens him with death, he says death would be a great adventure, like
he's finally confronted that fear that all adults have.
Yeah, I mean, Peter's story starts with a fear of mortality, as we've seen.
He overhears his mum saying that he'll grow up and he associates that with death and he
embodies what Captain Hook needs to or wishes that he could, which is not fearing death,
not fearing the future, passage of time, all that.
Join us again next week.
And Tinkerbell wants to fuck him.
It's fight day, it's fight night.
Pan shows up on the pirate ship and now it's fight night.
And one, Pan shows up on the ship and he cuts a Peter Pan shaped hole in the pirate's flag,
complete with the hair, the frayed shirt and the shorts.
I mean, the amount of detail he puts onto this thing, he must have been there hacking
away for like an hour, but mercifully it's shortened down for a few seconds for us.
And so begins the showdown, a big old fight scene between the lost boys and the pirates.
And yeah, this is the culmination of the film.
This is where everything's supposed to tie together with Jack and Maggie now being on
Captain Hook's side and the internal battle there.
None of it matters.
It's just a big fight.
Yeah.
A kid turns into a cannonball at one point.
There's a weird amount of slapstick, I guess not weird because it's a kid's film, but it's
a mix of when you consider the slapstick involved, it's usually associated with the sort of movies
where kids won't die, but a kid fucking dies.
Rufio shows up once again.
He's had a pitiful number of scenes in this film.
I think.
And he finally shows up.
The actor nailed it to be fair.
I think he was pretty great, but yeah, he rocks up.
We have our sword fight between Hook and Rufio.
He manages to jam Hook's sword to the floor for a second, the very famous line, lucky
lucky I got hooky.
And it's instantly killed.
It's like two seconds.
Another scene that there's a lot of scenes from this film that have been burned into
my brain.
And I think because kids don't die in kids films and they sure as shit don't die by
being stabbed through the chest by an adult man.
Exactly.
The only thing that happens quicker than Rufio's death is us all forgetting about Rufio's death.
Well, we're not going to forget Sam, because it brings us to our final Rufio no and a bottle
of rum.
Fucking hell, that's a stretch because I have a little fun bit of trivia for you.
Very first scene with Rufio, hit me with that.
When we're introduced to the lost boys, he runs at Robin Williams and swings his sword
and it lands millimeters from Robin Williams nose.
And he says, you're dead, jolly man.
What is special about that scene?
What is special?
Yeah.
I mean, the thing that stuck out to me from that scene specifically was that the speed
that he swung that sword and it didn't look edited, made it look like he was really close
to giving Robin Williams a concussion or at least someone was off frame.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's what I mean.
They had a very clever way of filming it.
Oh, really?
Okay.
Maybe it was all done in slow motion or something.
I don't know.
What was it?
Or not slow motion, I guess.
All done slowly and then sped up.
It was all filmed in reverse.
Oh, they started with the sword at his face and then filmed all, just like Anaconda.
Just like Anaconda, but in order to lip sync your dead jolly man for the post production
afterwards where he could just say the line and they could dub it over, they had to form
a sentence that would make his mouth make those movements in reverse.
Really?
Wow.
Which is quite cool.
Why didn't they?
I thought that was two separate shots.
Was it all one shot?
I believe so.
I guess it must have been if they did that.
Yeah.
Pretty cool way of doing it.
I'm going to have to go and rewatch that.
It's very cool.
Yeah.
I rewatched it after reading that too.
But then I've got a second one for you.
So the actor who plays Rufio, it's called Dante Basco and he played a really thirsty
little high school teenager in the 2006 movie Take the Lead.
How old was he in 2006?
A, your age or B, my age?
Okay.
So I will admit in the first scene that I saw Rufio, I went fucking hell.
There's no way this is a child.
This is an adult.
So I looked up his age.
2006 would have made him 31, which is your age.
Yep.
Drink motherfucker.
Fucking mental, right?
But that is insane.
That's like, that is like Tobey Maguire, Spider-Man levels of bizarre, you know, testing.
Yeah.
One of those weird trivia things that I sort of already knew because I saw the movie Take
the Lead in 2006 when it looks a lot like Rufio from Huck, but no, he'd be far too old.
Yeah.
He was already too old.
Oh, where are we?
We're in the fight scene.
Like you said, it's a lot of slapstick, Lost Boys versus Pirates, they're throwing eggs,
they're cannonballing all this shit and Pan, Peter Pan fights Huck in a few different locations.
Nothing too climactic happens except for Rufio's death, which we all forget about immediately.
I didn't.
I've remembered for the past, I've needed therapy for that shit.
Did you like Rufio?
I hated Rufio.
Whole film.
As a child.
Even now.
I was 12.
I think I just liked the line, lucky, lucky, I got Hucky and then seeing a child be stabbed
was a bit much when I was, I guess, six years old.
I suppose watching a child that you are meant to somewhat relate to die and then the film
just moves on and says, look, it's Robin Williams again.
That's maybe a bit harsh, but yeah, odd choice, but it happens.
No one mourns him in the aftermath, only me, apparently.
None of the kids do.
Oh yeah, you were the only one.
None of the kids go, where's Rufio?
They're all just, so who's in charge now?
Is it me or?
These kids have been there for a hundred straight years.
They cannot wait to take over.
Tinkerbell has had them playing her little war games for a century.
She taught only one of them to fly ever and he fucking left, so she never taught one again.
Yeah, Tinkerbell has been command and conquering them to death for the last hundred years.
The only quote I want to throw in there from this whole fight scene is that while Peter
Pan and Hook are fighting, Hook, Peter Pan says, I remember you being bigger and Hook
says to a 10 year old, I'm huge, which he's probably, he's probably said that before.
But eventually after all of this, Peter Pan humiliates Hook by whipping off his wig and
showing that he's an old man.
And we get all of the exposition about how he's afraid of time and he needs to embrace
it.
And that's the big message of this film.
And then the sidebar of the film is, oh, also his kids are good, aren't they?
Probably.
He loves his kids now.
That's it.
Yeah, his kid's still pretty shit.
He's got a pretty shit kid.
But all the other kids in the movie are better than his kids, to be fair.
Well, yeah, everyone, the whole movie, fucking background noise, the whole movie forgets
about his kids for most of the time.
And I also forgot about his kids.
So his entire kid's story arc is his daughter disappears for most of it.
And his son goes from annoying little knobhead to annoying little knobhead who has forgotten
his family and just wants to hang out with this other old dude to, yeah, my dad's all
right, isn't he?
Yeah.
He's fine.
Dad's all right now that he can fly and sword fight, which he will never do again.
He's realized that he's shit at baseball and actually his dad can fly.
So maybe he needs to suck up to him a little bit.
But anyway, the climactic moment here, the climax of the film is that Hook gets eaten
by a giant dead octopus, what the fuck am I on about?
The climax of the film is that Hook gets eaten by a giant dead crocodile, which burps and
Hook is just gone.
And that's it.
That's the end.
Yeah.
Done.
Big Bad has been defeated.
Everyone walks away.
Pirates are finished.
And Peter decides to leave and he leaves the cannonball kid in charge because he was walking
on the line and he's like, shit, this is a weak bunch.
Shit kid.
Shit kid.
Shit kid.
Shit kid.
Shit kid.
He looks at his own kid and goes, shit kid.
Yeah.
Worst kid.
Why am I thinking this one home?
Yeah.
But yeah, pretty cool little bit of trivia, which we don't have to drink over, is apparently
here, Steven Spielberg and Robin Williams didn't tell any of the Lost Boys who was going
to be picked in that scene.
So when the little boy looks surprised, it's because he didn't know.
All the reactions were genuine.
It was probably pretty obvious that he was the one with lines.
Yeah, the actor who played the little boy said, I thought I was just kind of the humorous
fat character.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, he was, but also he gets this little scene.
So that's cool.
That's a good bit of trivia.
I like that.
But now we return to the real world.
Yeah.
We head home.
Jack and Maggie have, they fly in through the window, hide in bed because they want
to give their mum a fucking heart attack because they're the worst kids.
Yeah.
They want her to think they're still kidnapped just for a little bit longer so they can jump
out of their doofus.
It's not the time.
No.
The woman practically has a heart attack when they emerge, but Peter doesn't end up home.
He wakes up in a park where there's a Peter Pan style statue and Bob Hoskins, the actor
who plays Smee, sweeping up a load of alcohol bottles around him.
As if this was all a drunken dream or yeah, all this didn't happen, but too many things
happen in this movie for it to be one of those movies where you go, well, was it real or
not?
Wendy remembers.
They start to do this, was it all a dream?
But then he talks to fucking Tinkerbell.
She's there.
It's like, oh no, it's not a dream because she's there.
Even if he's still trashed and she isn't there, his kids still remember everything.
Wendy already told him it all happened.
And in about two minutes time-
He's got a lot of marbles around his neck.
In about two minutes time, the marbles tootles guy is going to pour a bunch of Feridus down
his head and go flying out the window.
That's completely pointless extra bit of the story.
Did it happen or not?
The whole maybe it was a dream thing.
Yes, it happened.
No, it, of course it happened.
It all happened.
We just saw it and you're still doing it.
It's still happening.
Yeah, madness.
Obviously, you know, so Moira has got her kids back.
She's happy.
I'm sure she will be equally happy to hear that her husband went off, fucked three mermaids
and cheated on her with a fairy or went off, fucked three hookers and got trashed in a
park.
One of the two.
It doesn't matter.
Our kids are back.
She's sick of this guy anyway.
And then yes, this, uh, this mental old man gets his marbles back and then flies out the
windows, which look, fairy dust or not, marbles or not, you cannot trust this guy to fly.
No, this guy shouldn't be allowed out of the house, especially with fairy dust.
But yeah, he's not like he then goes off to Neverland, off to Neverland with me.
He's just doing flips above London for a bit until his fairy dust runs out and he just
crashes into the fucking floor.
I guess.
Yeah.
This is his full supply of fairy dust, all that he's ever going to have.
And he uses it on a few loops.
He's not, he's not there.
Let's be fair, he is a waste of fairy dust.
It's like if you're a bunch of starving children and you decide to throw your food at each
other instead of eating it.
Absolute waste.
Right.
I think that, um, that tops off the film, doesn't it?
Yeah.
It is a strangely deep movie for a kid's movie.
In parts.
Yeah.
It's got some very deep scenes.
Yeah.
I like, there's a message in this movie to be found and I'm not a hundred percent sure
what it is, but is this, Huck represents his mental issues and demons that he deals with
by finding his happy thought and that's him fighting with it?
Or that if you don't deal with your problems, it will only go on to affect your children?
Is that the message of this movie?
Because that's a weird movie to tell six year old.
That's a weird message to give six year old.
There's a lot of messages in this and I think that each of the writers on it had a different
idea of the message that was going to be sent.
So some of them were saying, Oh, I want to get, you know, I want this to be a metaphor
for fear of the passage of time.
But then others were like, nah, we'll do it about, you know, caring about your kids and
prioritising children over work and money.
And then another section were about belief and inner childishness and, you know, it's
like they didn't really, there was no clear unified idea of what the message of this film
was.
There was an attempt to make a very deep movie that there were just too many ideas going
in, I guess.
But yeah, I'm going to hit you with the big question then, Sam.
Too many ideas.
Too many actors.
Are you ready?
Gosh, go for it.
I don't know what's going to come out, but yeah.
Was this a Christmas movie?
There was some snow at the end.
Were there any Christmas trees is the question?
Because I think it was.
Because Jack's playing in the Santa series.
They go to London.
They do call him, what do they call him?
They call him Jolly Man.
Yeah, they go to London for Christmas.
But isn't this just a Christmas carol?
He's a miserable old fart businessman who has one night where he kind of sees his past
in the form of the Lost Boys.
Carl, are you asking me ho ho ho and a bottle of rum?
I'm asking you ho ho ho and a bottle of humbug.
But yeah, so he goes to Neverland and you could say Lost Boys, ghost of Christmas past.
So he's seeing his past, you see, he gets told in the start, you're sort of becoming
this awful pirate-like person.
Captain Hook, ghost of Christmas future, this is who you're becoming, and present is just
his wife telling him that he's an absolute bastard to his children.
Oh, God, the ghost of Christmas present is shrill, isn't she?
Get a job, then I won't have to work all the time.
Yeah, there's definitely some themes of it here.
He then comes home one night later and he's this happy, I've learned my lesson, I'm going
to live life to the fullest man.
It's a Christmas carol.
Is that my question?
Do I have to decide yes or no?
Is this a Christmas movie?
It's a die-hard question.
I'm going to say, I mean, look, let's be honest, no, it's not, but it shares all of the morals
and themes of a Christmas movie, which Christmas movies in the American convention-
I will point out it also came out in December, if that sways you in any way.
Okay, but no, it doesn't.
Even Christmas movies in convention are just excuses to make a fun movie and shoehorn some
fucking vaguely Christian morals in there.
So in that sense-
Vaguely Christian morals like abusing children.
Yes, paedophilia and child abuse, absolutely, indoctrination, absolutely, murder, absolutely.
So in that case-
Worshiping a guy who came back?
Sure.
Superior beings meddling in the effect, we're pushing this too far.
I'm saying no, but if you want to argue that it is, then-
I feel like I've made my point, feel free to message him and tell Sam that he's wrong.
Yeah, look, if anyone wants to argue that this is a Christmas film, I can go for it.
Yeah, I'll throw the real question at you now, Sam.
So you-
There's one more question.
Yeah.
What we called again?
So you think that was good, do you?
It's all right.
It's only been 60 odd episodes.
It's only been a year.
Do I think that that was good?
Do I?
Yes, obviously I do.
All of the plot points are, it's a bit messy.
This is always the case with these films that we cover.
It's messier than I remember.
It's not as coherent, but holy shit, it's a good film.
I really enjoyed it.
And even the stuff that I glossed over, there are all these little details in every scene,
like the hook on the vinyl player.
And like just all of the set design and all of the pirates and everything that just make
it such a fun film that I really enjoyed it.
And I think it doesn't have to be all that coherent.
It's a kid's film and it was very fun to watch.
So yes, I do think that was good.
Do I?
How about you?
Yeah, I think we're unanimous on this one.
It's a strange film in that everyone who was a kid when it came out thinks it's fantastic.
And anyone who was an adult when it came out thinks it's like Spielberg's worst movie ever.
But yeah, even minus nostalgia, I was weirdly impressed with it, especially compared to
everything else we've watched.
It's two hours and 20 minutes for one, which it's too long, but I mean it doesn't, it expects
more of kids than I think most of the movies we've watched.
It takes time to set up a story.
We don't just rush straight to Neverland.
It's 40 minutes before we're in Neverland.
There's a lot of themes in it that a lot of people would expect that you wouldn't understand
or maybe it does go over your head when you're younger.
And they also kill a child, that's brave.
I'm not saying that's in its favour, but I'm just saying they went out there and made something
different.
They kill a kid and an adult has a gun to his own head.
Yeah, it deals with real issues, I guess.
Probably a bit much, but maybe children don't need to see Captain Hook put a gun to his
head, but it's definitely different and I definitely enjoyed myself.
It's bold.
The only bad review I picked up, or the only review that I picked up for this, I think
summarises some of that, which says it's three stars, this is from Letterboxd.
It says, if you despise Hook, you have no heart.
If you love Hook, you have no brain.
And I think that sums it up quite nicely.
I'm really trying to think back about if I've said that I love this movie at any point now.
But you know, I've got the brain to think back.
I'm happy to say, I mean, I don't think it's a masterpiece, but I really enjoyed it.
On some level, I love this film.
Yeah, I think so too.
There's a lot of scenes where I've said this is stuck in my brain for a significant portion
of my life.
Same.
Same.
Right then.
So, are we done?
I'm just copying, Evan.
We are done.
Join us again on Spotify and rate us five stars next week.
Goodbye.